Podcircle Podcast

[00:00:00] Kyle Cummings: it's just more accurate reporting. And you know, there's, there's been a lot of press in the past year, like, oh is the podcast boom over and all of this stuff. And advertisers are reducing their budgets and not advertising as much. I think that a lot of it has to do with just this. if you're going to an advertiser you know, you're creating an ad partnership with them based on numbers that aren't. aren't

real. downloads don't mean listens. they're fluffed up numbers. And so now we're just getting more real

[00:00:26] Mickenzie Vought: Accurate numbers. Yes.

[00:00:28] Kyle Cummings: yeah, and which sucks in the short term because no one likes to see. A line, you know, on their podcast analytics that was going this way, and then suddenly there's a drop. I mean, there's a little bit of like, what happened?

so, that's why we're having this whole conversation. 'cause this is what happened Welcome to the PodCircle Podcast, where we bring practical tips and insights for every podcaster.

[00:00:46] Mickenzie Vought: Whether you're just getting started or you're already a seasoned podcast pro, these conversations dive into all the topics that matter most to you.

[00:00:54] Mickenzie Vought: so Kyle, I am so excited about today's episode because, well, some of our episodes are evergreen, right? they're topics that go core to our messaging and that you can discover at any time and find value.

They're always gonna be valuable. Always be consistent. It doesn't matter the seasonality or time of year. some episodes are more seasonal and responsive to something we're seeing in the podcast market.

And that is today's episode. We are going to outline a recent Apple Podcast update that every podcaster needs to know about. So if you've been noticing a decrease in your monthly download metrics, you are not alone, and we're gonna tell you why.

[00:01:31] Kyle Cummings: Yeah, we're gonna talk about it today. So a little bit of background with the iOS-Seventeen update, apple has updated how automatic downloads of new episodes are handled based on user behavior.

So when a listener follows a show, apple Podcasts will begin automatically downloading between one and three episodes, depending on the podcast show's type. So that, I know that might sound a little bit confusing, so let's kind of break it down into the two types. If it's a serial podcast, which a serial podcast just means that it's intended to be consumed, in sequential order.

Uh, so you can think literally of the Serial podcast, a very popular podcast, which I think is, is over now. so if it's a serial podcast, apple will automatically download between one and three episodes at once. If it's an episodic podcast like the one you're listening to right now, and I would say like the vast majority of podcasts, it will download only the most recent episode, and that's the big change that we're all looking at.

That's the big change that we're all feeling in terms of our download numbers. So, automatic downloads have specific behaviors. For these two different types of shows to help listeners start from the best place, Historically, that meant that unless a user changed their download preferences in Apple's podcast settings, then would automatically download every new episode a show released.

[00:02:53] Mickenzie Vought: Right. So basically this is an automatic feature, right? Listeners were able to adjust their settings so that they only had the latest 1, 2, 3, or five episodes staying downloaded on their device or their phone, wherever they're listening to their podcasts. Or if you're like me, you've turned off all automatic downloads on everything because you continually run out of space because of the hundreds of thousands of photos you have of your children.

But

[00:03:17] Kyle Cummings: Relatable,

[00:03:18] Mickenzie Vought: Relatable, yes. The bottom line is that unless users intentionally shift the automatic download sending on their device, automatic downloads only paused when a device was out of available storage, no matter how long it had been since someone listened to a show. So if I haven't listened to a show in six months, apple was still going to be downloading every new episode onto my device.

[00:03:40] Kyle Cummings: Mm.

[00:03:41] Mickenzie Vought: And we've often talked about downloads being a metric that you can pay attention to, but to do so in the context of other trackable metrics that help you better understand your audience. So automatic downloads before, were only shifted based on preference or running outta space on a device. Now automatic downloads are going to be determined by your listener's behavior.

[00:04:01] Kyle Cummings: so here's the change that Apple has implemented with this latest iOS 17 update.

The first one is automatic downloads are now paused.

When a device is out of storage, like Mackenzie mentioned, or when a hasn't played any of the latest five episodes for more than 15 days. Also, the change is communicated to listeners with a pause indicator on the follow icon located at the top. Right of the show page. If a listener resumes playing that show or changes the download preferences for that show, apple Podcasts will resume automatically downloading episodes for new episodes.

[00:04:38] Mickenzie Vought: New episodes, not past episodes. So if I had a setting that said, I want the last five episodes, they don't go back and retroactively download old episodes that you've missed since unsubscribing

[00:04:48] Kyle Cummings: Yeah, makes sense. Also, if a listener resumes playing that show or changes the download preferences for that show, then Apple Podcasts will resume automatically downloading new episodes. Automatic downloads will be paused again if the listener does not play a show. That they follow for more than 15 days and hasn't played the latest five episodes.

So the last one being automatic downloads are unaffected if a show does not publish a new episode for 15 days or more. So they're really, they're really just changing the, the behavior of how they're reporting, what a download, what a play even is. And that's, it seems very technical, which it is, but it.

it's affecting all of our, all of our numbers. So one last shift that you mentioned here, McKinsey in the notes, is that before iOS 17, when a listener would unpause Automatic downloads, the system would automatically download all Unplayed episodes and with iOS 17, apple Podcasts will not download previous episodes and will resume automatically downloading.

Only new episodes, so help us tie this up into, uh, Simplify this and tie it up

[00:06:01] Mickenzie Vought: So that's a lot of technical information, but what does that mean for you? Basically that means you've probably seen your downloads take a nose dive over the last quarter or

so,

[00:06:11] Kyle Cummings: At least the numbers. And I think that's the

key.

[00:06:14] Mickenzie Vought: the numbers. But before you panic, downloads are a metric that a lot of us like to wear as a badge of honor. You know, you can report to ad partners, you can say we have this many downloads, or like, it's kind of a, vanity metric, if you will. And we at PodCircle often tell you to look beyond just downloads to measure the success of your show.

You can let downloads be a metric metric, not the only metric for your show's success, but it's not gonna be the end all be all. And there are metrics that can help you better gain an understanding if your podcast is winning and connecting with your audience. If you wanna dive into this topic, we actually have an entire episode, episode nine.

That will link in the show notes and it'll help you kind of think beyond Downloads and see what other metrics might be a better representation of your user's behavior, their preferences, and whether or not they're resonating with your show and gonna become a raving fan.

But personally on the other show that I produce and co-host, we've seen a dive in our downloads and I got really nervous, but I just did my monthly metrics that I do every month. I go in and I have several things that I measure and I keep tracking a little spreadsheet, and I did that and I notice that.

We hadn't lost listeners. We'd actually had more plays in the month and more hours listened and our number of subscribers was the same or, it had gone up, so it hadn't gone down with downloads. And we just had a more engaged audience. So if you're seeing your download numbers correlating, it's indicating that people are taking a lapse between listening to your show, and that is something to pay attention to.

You are not creating content that every week someone has to consume. Right. And it may make me sound basic, but I very rarely miss an episode of Armchair Expert. I just have become, it's become part of my rhythm. And so if Mackenzie, if my metric and Armchair expert was seeing that people aren't listening and they're having lapses, it would tell them, Hey, the normal behavior of your listeners is going on.

The change is alarming. If you have ad partnerships, like I mentioned, and because a lot of times ad partnerships are based on downloads. Or if you're answering to stakeholders for downloading numbers, you just need to start telling a different story, which is what I did in a high-level stakeholder meeting this week.

I told a different story. I said, here's an update that happened. Here's the other metrics that we're seeing to say that we've still got an engaged audience. They're still listening. We just no longer have this vanity number, but I think it provides a really interesting opportunity to really tune into your audience and measure if changes in the small things that you implement are going to move or adjust their behavior.

I actually think you have more access into their behavior than you did before, if that makes sense. So,

[00:08:50] Kyle Cummings: I think it's also, it's just more accurate reporting. I think that the numbers. And you know, there's, there's been a lot of press in the past year, like, oh is the podcast boom over and all of this stuff. And advertisers are reducing their budgets and not advertising as much. podcast certain podcast deals are becoming smaller and there's this disruption in the, and all of this stuff.

And I think that a lot of it has to do with just this. I think if you're going to an advertiser and you know, you're creating an ad partnership with them based on numbers that aren't. aren't

real. downloads don't mean listens. They don't mean that that many people that actually consume the podcast.

So they are, they're, they're fluffed up numbers. And so now we're just getting more real

[00:09:34] Mickenzie Vought: Accurate numbers. Yes.

[00:09:35] Kyle Cummings: yeah, and which sucks in the short term because no one likes to see. A line, you know, on their podcast analytics that was going this way, and then suddenly there's a drop. I mean, there's a little bit of like, what happened?

so, that's why we're having this whole conversation. 'cause this is what happened more times than not, not to say that there wasn't maybe a realized dip in your show or whatever. Uh, that sometimes those things can happen seasonally. Like I know o oftentimes podcasts consumption goes down during the summers and then picks back up, in the fall.

[00:10:04] Mickenzie Vought: My December was really low because I think of the holidays. Yeah.

[00:10:08] Kyle Cummings: I think, and I also think, not to get in the weeds that a lot of people think like, oh, people have more, more time around the holidays and more time during the summers, you know, to listen to podcasts. I actually think it's the opposite. You know, we get out of our rhythms, and so the podcastS that we listen to on a weekly basis in our rhythms, that becomes disrupted in the summers oftentimes, especially if you have kids and your kids are outta school and you're whole and you're on the road and.

Things like that. So,

[00:10:33] Mickenzie Vought: So what do we do about this?

[00:10:34] Kyle Cummings: The number one thing you can do is to create, just to continue to create quality content that lands with your audience. And this sounds very obvious, but create a show that people want to. Dare I say, have to listen to every new episode, whether that's every week.

However, whatever your release cadence is, create a show that meets your listeners needs and is responsive to what they're telling you that they want.

[00:10:59] Mickenzie Vought: Which brings us to 0.2 Kyle. You can optimize your show based on the feedback they're giving you. Look at length of show, look at your listener's habits. Are they consuming less or more of the episodes? That's a metric that I looked at last month and said, oh, we didn't have as many downloads, but we had a 10% increase in the length that people were finishing the episode.

So that means we're getting down to and honing in, getting closer to creating episodes that people wanna listen to the whole length of,

[00:11:30] Kyle Cummings: Like the ideal episode length time.

[00:11:33] Mickenzie Vought: And if you've got a show that consistently people are only listening to 35, 40% of one, either the content's not good and it's not holding them, or two, it's just too long and you wanna think about one or two commutes, and the average commute is 25 minutes.

So one or two of those. So if someone likes you enough, they might commit the whole, you know, both their commutes in a day. But just think logistically about that. The second is show topics. Uh, show titles, Are you doing topics that really resonate with your audience and they wanna tune in. Have you got a catchy title that's pulling them in today?

We're telling you the update you have to know about. Like, is that gonna pull you in? Unless we just said like the most recent Apple iOS update. Tell people why it matters to them and why they need to listen.

[00:12:17] Kyle Cummings: a sticky title matters.

[00:12:19] Mickenzie Vought: yes. Are you bringing in guests that are gonna pull your audience in? Could you be more strategic?

Could you ask your audience who they wanna hear from and then go after them? And then the last, you know, we're gonna say it. Um, one of the best ways to optimize your show is to make sure you have quality audio. This is the number one reason people stop listening to a show. And so make sure you have quality, sound, quality editing, and a show that is easy to listen to.

[00:12:47] Kyle Cummings: Amen to that sister. Number three, keep your show top of mind. So don't let your listeners forget about you. Continue to re release weekly. The best way to. Continue to engage your listeners. It's just to continue releasing episodes, which as we've talked about a ton on this podcast, is a heck of a lot easier said than done

because, you know, maintaining consistent quality show is a grind.

so with that continue to create scroll-stopping social media clips from your episodes that highlight your show and the topics that you're discussing on recent episodes. If you have guests. Create really good clips for them. Send them to your guests for them to share on your socials. We talk a lot about that in the podcast.

Um, and lastly, utilize your email list and send out an email newsletter. As McKenzie says all the time, your email list is the only thing that you actually own. You don't really own your followers. If Facebook and Instagram decide to shut down or crazy, you know, you don't. All those millions of followers or hundreds of thousands or hundreds of followers.

They're gone. You know, who knows? But your email you can get in front of people on a daily basis, a weekly basis. So we're big fans of leveraging your email list to promote your podcast

[00:14:01] Mickenzie Vought: Clearly you don't own your podcast subscribers either because they can stop downloading any day

[00:14:07] Kyle Cummings: Yeah. We are beholden to, there's a lot of things there to Spotify, to Apple and their download behaviors, even to the hosting platforms.

Like what if. You know, Libsyn, Buzzsprout, Transistor All, what if they shut down? What if they go away? What if they lose, funding? It's like, what happens to your podcast feed? So, we talked a lot about the, the power of having an email newsletter and email marketing is still, a huge, a huge deal even in 2024.

[00:14:32] Mickenzie Vought: Yeah. the fourth thing I think you need to do is to track your show's performance. So I talked a little bit about this earlier in the episode, that this is something I do on a monthly basis. This is not the end of the world that your downloads are going down, but it's just something you need to pay attention to and key into your audience behavior.

I'm a big proponent of tracking more than just downloads month over month. and that's actually the metric they're gonna show you like. When you go into the analytics of whatever hosting site you use, they're gonna show you first and foremost those downloads. But if you dig a little deeper, there are things that you can, kind of dig into and track consistently over time.

The things that I track followers and subscribers on Apple and Spotify listening hours, which is the amount of, content that's consumed in a month. And you can kind of look at your podcast and what you put out in that month.

Um, episode consumption. So how much of an episode did someone listen to the number of monthly listeners? Monthly listener hours? We talked about that. Monthly plays And the last thing that I have really recently started tracking that I love is an episode's performance within the first 30 and 90 days. And so this is something that I wasn't able to track before in our previous, uh, hosting platform, Libsyn, but since Kyle, uh, helped us switch over to Transistor, this is a metric that Transistor shows you.

and it's really easy to read. It's really easy to like, at a glance to see how something's doing compared to the other episodes. I really, really love this feature.

[00:15:57] Kyle Cummings: Alright, so that's it for this episode. We got a little, a little technical with it, but I think that hopefully speaks to. If you've noticed that there's a drop in your downloads, you're not going crazy. Your show isn't over. there's more going on behind the scenes and the devils in the details, with the way that the apple has kind of changed up their downloading, behaviors and things like that.

So thanks for tuning in. If you need help optimizing your show, that's what we do. We're, we're here to help. Uh, McKenzie and I host regular strategy sessions for new podcasters and podcasters who just feel like they've. Hit a wall. it just happens, you know, your download numbers stagnate, or in this case they go down, you're thinking what is going on?

Maybe you just kind of feel like creatively you're hitting a wall a bit. Um, we talk to podcasters like that all the time, help get them unstuck and get on a road to success for their podcast so we can help you get to the bottom of what's working, what needs improvement, and help you move forward with a solid plan to create the results you want.

So you can simply schedule a call with me using the link in the show notes, um, or you can just simply email me at Kyle at podcircle.com.

[00:17:02] Mickenzie Vought: All right, and if you're just getting started and you wanna launch your show with ease, you can get our complete podcast starter kit at podcircle.com slash start, and we wanna make sure that you are subscribed to the show wherever you listen, Spotify, apple, or YouTube, where you can see our entire full episodes and video format and see our beautiful faces.

All right, we'll see you next week.